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	<title>Comments on: What makes a bad web designer?</title>
	<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Angela Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-485</guid>
		<description>How far do you go to establish a standard?  Would consideration be given to whether the designer also provides SEO services?  After all, if a site can't be found, it doesn't matter how beautiful it is.  There are many ways to measure quality and, ultimately, the client makes the decision.  So, I'd be careful about establishing a very stringent standard as there has to be a recognized flexibility for the varying types of clients (and budgets) that a designer would work with.  At the same time, it probably wouldn't be difficult to ferret out the worst-of-the-worst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How far do you go to establish a standard?  Would consideration be given to whether the designer also provides SEO services?  After all, if a site can&#8217;t be found, it doesn&#8217;t matter how beautiful it is.  There are many ways to measure quality and, ultimately, the client makes the decision.  So, I&#8217;d be careful about establishing a very stringent standard as there has to be a recognized flexibility for the varying types of clients (and budgets) that a designer would work with.  At the same time, it probably wouldn&#8217;t be difficult to ferret out the worst-of-the-worst.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Choquette</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Choquette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Sounds to me like Ruth has a great idea, too. If you're getting a lot of submissions, it would probably be best to delegate these to "experts" within your advertisers. If a submission gets rejected and they want to try to appeal, then it may go before a panel. The question is -- do you have folsk you can essentially trust with the well-being of your own website? That you would take their word for it if they booted someone that you might have kept?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds to me like Ruth has a great idea, too. If you&#8217;re getting a lot of submissions, it would probably be best to delegate these to &#8220;experts&#8221; within your advertisers. If a submission gets rejected and they want to try to appeal, then it may go before a panel. The question is &#8212; do you have folsk you can essentially trust with the well-being of your own website? That you would take their word for it if they booted someone that you might have kept?</p>
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		<title>By: James Paden</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>James Paden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-25</guid>
		<description>True, Ruth.  The purpose behind the panel is to give it legitimacy more than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, Ruth.  The purpose behind the panel is to give it legitimacy more than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-24</guid>
		<description>While I agree that screening out bottom feeders and sub-par web designers (and companies) is much needed, I'm not sure if a panel is the right way to go.

I think what Desirea said about mom and pop shops needing simple web sites versus other companies needing more cutting edge design is very true, however, James, you are more than capable of reviewing a portfolio, identifying designs that suck and not allowing those providers into the Xemion directory - I don't think you need a panel of experts to do that.  On the other hand, if you are strapped for time, then you may not be able to do all of the review work single handedly.  If that is the case, then you would need a panel, but I don't think you need 3-5 people to review each company who applies for listing in your directory.  Just get a few trusted people (experts) to each review a share of the potential listings on their own, not as a group, and decide whether the designer/firm meets Xemion standards or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that screening out bottom feeders and sub-par web designers (and companies) is much needed, I&#8217;m not sure if a panel is the right way to go.</p>
<p>I think what Desirea said about mom and pop shops needing simple web sites versus other companies needing more cutting edge design is very true, however, James, you are more than capable of reviewing a portfolio, identifying designs that suck and not allowing those providers into the Xemion directory - I don&#8217;t think you need a panel of experts to do that.  On the other hand, if you are strapped for time, then you may not be able to do all of the review work single handedly.  If that is the case, then you would need a panel, but I don&#8217;t think you need 3-5 people to review each company who applies for listing in your directory.  Just get a few trusted people (experts) to each review a share of the potential listings on their own, not as a group, and decide whether the designer/firm meets Xemion standards or not.</p>
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		<title>By: James Paden</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>James Paden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Josh, I couldn't agree with you more - but the question is what ***exactly are the standards*** these "firms" should be held to?  When they ask, what do I tell them they did wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more - but the question is what ***exactly are the standards*** these &#8220;firms&#8221; should be held to?  When they ask, what do I tell them they did wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Delsman</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Delsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-21</guid>
		<description>I am really so sick and tired of the miscellaneous web design "firms" in this area cutting up the competition because they offer low prices ($10/hour in some cases) and provide low quality of work. This not only sets the standard for design very low, but also makes it almost impossible to persuade clients easily that going with an established consultancy is better and more financially viable than going with a kid in 6th grade with Photoshop and a pirated version of Dreamweaver.

While I would be a hypocrite to say that some kids know what they're doing, they are going about it in all the wrong ways. I, too, would be firm advocate of having a panel of three to five REAL experts (with experience as well as up-to-date knowledge of technology and methods), as this would weed out those "firms" I'm talking about.

Sorry if that seemed like a flame, but I'm sure many of you can relate and understand my frustration, as it is clearly mimicked around the web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am really so sick and tired of the miscellaneous web design &#8220;firms&#8221; in this area cutting up the competition because they offer low prices ($10/hour in some cases) and provide low quality of work. This not only sets the standard for design very low, but also makes it almost impossible to persuade clients easily that going with an established consultancy is better and more financially viable than going with a kid in 6th grade with Photoshop and a pirated version of Dreamweaver.</p>
<p>While I would be a hypocrite to say that some kids know what they&#8217;re doing, they are going about it in all the wrong ways. I, too, would be firm advocate of having a panel of three to five REAL experts (with experience as well as up-to-date knowledge of technology and methods), as this would weed out those &#8220;firms&#8221; I&#8217;m talking about.</p>
<p>Sorry if that seemed like a flame, but I&#8217;m sure many of you can relate and understand my frustration, as it is clearly mimicked around the web.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne Bengtson</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne Bengtson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the responses. 

I think you are probably on the right track with the idea of a badge on the actual listing, and I think the wording should go something like "Xemion Top Pick" or "Xemion Category Winner". Would you be okay with changing the focus of the effort to rewarding exceptional efforts and possibly using the word "criteria" rather than "standards?"? It seems like a positive acknowledgement of accomplishment and may encourage others to meet the bar you set. 

The more I think about the security issue brought up by  Desirea, the more I think it's a worthwhile topic on it's own. Despite all of the security testing that we did (above) for enterprise Web products, we never used the word "secure" to describe a deployment. We said "more secure". In any kind of security effort, the best effort (including testing scans or independent verification) can only test for known vulnerabilities, and hackers are always looking for new ones.  

So here are a few links about known vulnerabilities in common Web 2.0 practices. 

http://www.news.com/The-security-risk-in-Web-2.0/2100-1002_3-6099228.html
http://www.net-security.org/article.php?id=949&#38;p=2

Less esoteric but probably at least as applicable to the topic are these best practices: 
1) 3rd party payment vendors specialize in collecting credit card data securely, and they have insurance to cover any issues that might arise. Use them for ecommerce websites.
2) Any kind of personal data collected by a website should be transmitted through a secure (https) connection.

So this was pretty long winded. I'll try to keep it shorter in the future. I think the effort to improve the quality of the Web designers on Xemion is a good one and has great potential. Thanks for the opportunity to collaborate on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the responses. </p>
<p>I think you are probably on the right track with the idea of a badge on the actual listing, and I think the wording should go something like &#8220;Xemion Top Pick&#8221; or &#8220;Xemion Category Winner&#8221;. Would you be okay with changing the focus of the effort to rewarding exceptional efforts and possibly using the word &#8220;criteria&#8221; rather than &#8220;standards?&#8221;? It seems like a positive acknowledgement of accomplishment and may encourage others to meet the bar you set. </p>
<p>The more I think about the security issue brought up by  Desirea, the more I think it&#8217;s a worthwhile topic on it&#8217;s own. Despite all of the security testing that we did (above) for enterprise Web products, we never used the word &#8220;secure&#8221; to describe a deployment. We said &#8220;more secure&#8221;. In any kind of security effort, the best effort (including testing scans or independent verification) can only test for known vulnerabilities, and hackers are always looking for new ones.  </p>
<p>So here are a few links about known vulnerabilities in common Web 2.0 practices. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.news.com/The-security-risk-in-Web-2.0/2100-1002_3-6099228.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.com/The-security-risk-in-Web-2.0/2100-1002_3-6099228.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.net-security.org/article.php?id=949&amp;p=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.net-security.org/article.php?id=949&amp;p=2</a></p>
<p>Less esoteric but probably at least as applicable to the topic are these best practices:<br />
1) 3rd party payment vendors specialize in collecting credit card data securely, and they have insurance to cover any issues that might arise. Use them for ecommerce websites.<br />
2) Any kind of personal data collected by a website should be transmitted through a secure (https) connection.</p>
<p>So this was pretty long winded. I&#8217;ll try to keep it shorter in the future. I think the effort to improve the quality of the Web designers on Xemion is a good one and has great potential. Thanks for the opportunity to collaborate on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Choquette</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Choquette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-14</guid>
		<description>That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That doesn&#8217;t sound like a bad idea to me, either.</p>
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		<title>By: James Paden</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>James Paden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Dianna, I think that's good idea.  What about something more like a "Meets Xemion Quality Standards" badge on the actual listing?  Do you think that would work?  We could even have different levels of standards (reserving CSS &#038; HTML validation for the top standard)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianna, I think that&#8217;s good idea.  What about something more like a &#8220;Meets Xemion Quality Standards&#8221; badge on the actual listing?  Do you think that would work?  We could even have different levels of standards (reserving CSS &#038; HTML validation for the top standard)</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne Bengtson</title>
		<link>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne Bengtson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.xemion.com/blog/what-makes-a-bad-web-designer-13.html#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Interesting points above, especially the one from Desirea about security. It kind of leads me off the main point of my response but is so important that I think it's justified. Having spent too much time in quality assurance for a large software company I can say a few things about the topic. Testing for security vulnerabilities is a specialized skillset, is time consuming and more importantly, in this situation results in activities that are essentially attacks on the website in question. I won't even go into the liability question. 

So... bearing in mind that the free market has a way of eliminating the chaff anyway, why not develop your Top Design Companies topic into an opportunity for recognition of companies that by Xemion standards are exceptionally good. You could then publish the standards and allow firms to compete for placement. You could still monetize the placement by adding an entry fee. Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points above, especially the one from Desirea about security. It kind of leads me off the main point of my response but is so important that I think it&#8217;s justified. Having spent too much time in quality assurance for a large software company I can say a few things about the topic. Testing for security vulnerabilities is a specialized skillset, is time consuming and more importantly, in this situation results in activities that are essentially attacks on the website in question. I won&#8217;t even go into the liability question. </p>
<p>So&#8230; bearing in mind that the free market has a way of eliminating the chaff anyway, why not develop your Top Design Companies topic into an opportunity for recognition of companies that by Xemion standards are exceptionally good. You could then publish the standards and allow firms to compete for placement. You could still monetize the placement by adding an entry fee. Thoughts?</p>
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